Is the EFL gravy train running out of steam?

[mondai]

I remember back in 2000 when I had my first job, I met a guy teaching in uni, in Japan. Said guy had a subsidized apartment (nice one too) travel expenses, summers and winters off as well as 1 month paid vacation time. I'm not sure how many lessons he taught but I guess it wasn't so many. He seemed to be consstantly on vacation and yet earning double the JET salary.

I think at that time I decided that teaching was for me. Easy life and relatively well paid, not much stress and working in a 'nice' enviroment. The guy only had an MA -how hard could it be?

Since then I've been gradually working towards this goal but it seems like every year it gets a little more elusive. It seems that the number of people who share my dream is increasing pushing down demand and likewise pushing selection criteria up. Rather than getting better, jobs actually seem to be getting worse (in terms of pay and conditions) and requirements for uni jobs (the few that are out there) get more and moe stringent. For example, havinjg an MA was enough at one time. Then it was an MA in TESOL/ling. Now it seems that an MA in TESOL must be accompanied by publications and some jobs are even requiring PHDs (pretty much the same level for getting a uni job back home!). Likewise, when I started at GEOS, 250,000 + bonuses was about the lowest salary you could get. Now I see westgate uni jobs offering lower than that -and this is 10 years later! There are plenty of jobs offering less than 250,000 these days and interac is almost certainly eating your lunch.

So is the EFL gravy train pulling into the terminal station or is there still hope?

[Ken_Shamrock]

people who share my dream

The dream of being career English monkey?

[mondai]

out of curiosity, what do you do Ken?

[honesty]

some jobs are even requiring PHDs (pretty much the same level for getting a uni job back home!).

Unless these are jobs that are chiefly in research and have a small (say, 6 hours per week) teaching/supervision element, then they are not like the university jobs at home that require PhDs, and which come with the promise of tenure.

It's ridiculous, like recruiting medical doctors to be nurses.

[mondai]

some jobs are even requiring PHDs (pretty much the same level for getting a uni job back home!).

Unless these are jobs that are chiefly in research and have a small (say, 6 hours per week) teaching/supervision element, then they are not like the university jobs at home that require PhDs, and which come with the promise of tenure.

It's ridiculous, like recruiting medical doctors to be nurses.

speaking of which:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/healt ... ke-up.html

I'm not sure about this tenure thing, I've not heard much about it outside the US. To be honest, I'm not that up on the ins and outs of being a lecturer but there are different types, even back home. I applied for a job recently in the UK which was titled "lecturer in EAP" but was nothing more than an efl gig.

[Oriental Chairboy]

Universities across Asia are gradually morphing into full-blown commercial entities. I think the success of any given EFL professional will increasingly depend on his or her ability to contribute as much to the commercial well-being of a given institution, at least as much as their academic contribution.

[honesty]

I think the success of any given EFL professional will increasingly depend on his or her ability to contribute as much to the commercial well-being of a given institution

what might doing that consist in? Attracting (fee-paying) students? Writing papers that attract research funding to the institution? But that second is "academic contribution"...

[Oriental Chairboy]

what might doing that consist in? Attracting (fee-paying) students? Writing papers that attract research funding to the institution? But that second is "academic contribution"...

Both of those, yeah. Other stuff too. Maybe. How should I know? I only wrote the above sentence to try to appear knowledgable and worldly, and you've just gone and called me on the fact that I don't really know what I meant by it. You bastard.

[genkigirl1]

I've been saying this for years. I think the jig is up with regards to not having... qualifications! Unless you want to work at a crappy eikaiwa for the resat of your life. I think the Japanese may finally have clued into the "punks on a lark" thing. Sadly though, they still treat the qualified folks like crap - re your comment about PhDs and not tenure. Getting worse in some cases, better in other. Depends on the university.

[misc.]

do you think a masters in TEFOL/linguistics guarantees somebody a job at a university? what else is necessary? (aside from some teaching experience)

[whatever1]

It also depends on location, Hokkaido has gone tits up. If you want an ok job up here you need the Phd, aside from one, two or (three, and we tell you to fvck off after) jobs. As much as I love living here, I can see myself moving in the next 2 years.

[mondai]

do you think a masters in TEFOL/linguistics guarantees somebody a job at a university?

I think the point is, it used to be.

It also depends on location, Hokkaido has gone tits up. If you want an ok job up here you need the Phd, aside from one, two or (three, and we tell you to fvck off after) jobs. As much as I love living here, I can see myself moving in the next 2 years.

ah crap...there goes my hokkaido dream.

[genkigirl1]

do you think a masters in TEFOL/linguistics guarantees somebody a job at a university? what else is necessary? (aside from some teaching experience)

Nope. Doesn't mean much if you don't have someone to vouch for you - I came to a city not knowing anyone but had a friend who was a pretty "big" guy with some of the top gaijin guys in the uni scene. A quick email made sure my resume was at the top as these guys trust this guy's judgment. I also had to have published papers, uni teaching experience (again, I had that because of a friend hiring me for a quick course), decent Japanese (they don't want to have to babysit you and for one school I had to have a resume done in Japanese) and sit through one panel interview for one PT job and meet the top gaijin for one and the top Japanese for another. So you need an MA, publishing, connections, Japanese, sometimes uni experience and all the other things for job interviews.

But this is just my experience. I am sure someone on here will disagree or claim something else but this seems to be the norm for most folks. Once you are "in" the system you are pretty safe though I have a coworker who has a Japanese MA and he's losing classes at places because they are hiring more folks who just got their MA rather than a non-related degree.

ETA - Hokkaido and Kansai are notorious for being hard to get into.

[Brighton]

That seems a bit odd, why is everyone gunning for Hokkaido? Going for the seafood and onsens?

[mondai]

2nd largest land mass in Japan with only 3% of the population. The climate is more like England than Japan with no rainy season and no need for aircon. Also there are none of the annoying snakes or bugs that the rest of Japan has. Hokkaido also has some world class ski resorts and some great onsens. The food is not bad either. It's the youngest prefecture which means that it's much less traditional and so you get a lot less of the BS of other areas in Japan.

[Hideyoshilives]

I've been saying this for years. I think the jig is up with regards to not having... qualifications! Unless you want to work at a crappy eikaiwa for the resat of your life. I think the Japanese may finally have clued into the "punks on a lark" thing. Sadly though, they still treat the qualified folks like crap - re your comment about PhDs and not tenure. Getting worse in some cases, better in other. Depends on the university.

I think the implosion of Nova really raised the sleazy profile of the eikaiwa industry. Throw in the bad economy and I think there's just less money to go around for the average punk on a lark. It used to be that the unqualified teachers could make a living on a Nova salary, but it's becoming increasingly harder to do that. Even if the salary isn't so bad, I don't think they keep teachers around as long anymore. The genki dipshit teaching circuit is not a stable industry anymore.

[kagekatsu]

I think the implosion of Nova really raised the sleazy profile of the eikaiwa industry. Throw in the bad economy and I think there's just less money to go around for the average punk on a lark. It used to be that the unqualified teachers could make a living on a Nova salary, but it's becoming increasingly harder to do that. Even if the salary isn't so bad, I don't think they keep teachers around as long anymore. The genki dipshit teaching circuit is not a stable industry anymore.

Another trend to watch is the growing market for Chinese lessons. Up to now it hasn't had much impact on eikaiwa demand but it's not hard to see how that could gradually change in coming years.

[Hideyoshilives]

I think the implosion of Nova really raised the sleazy profile of the eikaiwa industry. Throw in the bad economy and I think there's just less money to go around for the average punk on a lark. It used to be that the unqualified teachers could make a living on a Nova salary, but it's becoming increasingly harder to do that. Even if the salary isn't so bad, I don't think they keep teachers around as long anymore. The genki dipshit teaching circuit is not a stable industry anymore.

Another trend to watch is the growing market for Chinese lessons. Up to now it hasn't had much impact on eikaiwa demand but it's not hard to see how that could gradually change in coming years.

This is absolutely spot on. In fact, I noticed the growing demand for Chinese right before I left, which was in late 2006. The Chinese language section at the Kinokinuyu Honya grew from one or two shelves, to an entire aisle within a few years. Managers at some of the companies I worked for as a part-time teacher began regularly sending their employees to China. I was wondering then why in the hell aren't they learning Chinese, and now I bet that they are.

[misc.]

do you think a masters in TEFOL/linguistics guarantees somebody a job at a university? what else is necessary? (aside from some teaching experience)

Nope. Doesn't mean much if you don't have someone to vouch for you - I came to a city not knowing anyone but had a friend who was a pretty "big" guy with some of the top gaijin guys in the uni scene. A quick email made sure my resume was at the top as these guys trust this guy's judgment. I also had to have published papers, uni teaching experience (again, I had that because of a friend hiring me for a quick course), decent Japanese (they don't want to have to babysit you and for one school I had to have a resume done in Japanese) and sit through one panel interview for one PT job and meet the top gaijin for one and the top Japanese for another. So you need an MA, publishing, connections, Japanese, sometimes uni experience and all the other things for job interviews.

But this is just my experience. I am sure someone on here will disagree or claim something else but this seems to be the norm for most folks. Once you are "in" the system you are pretty safe though I have a coworker who has a Japanese MA and he's losing classes at places because they are hiring more folks who just got their MA rather than a non-related degree.

ETA - Hokkaido and Kansai are notorious for being hard to get into.

well, i have the Japanese, some connections and am in the process of getting the MA...

but publications and uni teaching experience? won't someone cut a guy a break? how would you get your foot in the door if that's the case?

[Brighton]

2nd largest land mass in Japan with only 3% of the population. The climate is more like England than Japan with no rainy season and no need for aircon. Also there are none of the annoying snakes or bugs that the rest of Japan has. Hokkaido also has some world class ski resorts and some great onsens. The food is not bad either. It's the youngest prefecture which means that it's much less traditional and so you get a lot less of the BS of other areas in Japan.

Fair enough. I guess if you don't have to be in one of the big cities for business reasons you might as well head for the quality of life...

[Rhialto]

2nd largest land mass in Japan with only 3% of the population. The climate is more like England than Japan with no rainy season and no need for aircon. Also there are none of the annoying snakes or bugs that the rest of Japan has. Hokkaido also has some world class ski resorts and some great onsens. The food is not bad either. It's the youngest prefecture which means that it's much less traditional and so you get a lot less of the BS of other areas in Japan.

Last time I checked, England doesn't get multiple feet of snow for months at a time. Multiple millimetres for days at a time, maybe.

[Atalante]

I really wonder what person with a phD or outstanding qualifications would accept such crap jobs? The pay ain't worth it, and neither are the benefits, I can't imagine who's so qualified to be so desperate to take these crap jobs.

Surely the market will have to recorrect itself again in time?

[Bobbysix]

I really wonder what person with a phD or outstanding qualifications would accept such crap jobs? The pay ain't worth it, and neither are the benefits, I can't imagine who's so qualified to be so desperate to take these crap jobs.

Surely the market will have to recorrect itself again in time?

My view on it: when you choose to stay long term in Japan, you have to compromise as far as your career is concerned.
As a qualified teacher, I could stay in the UK, and get a permanent full time position with job security, pension, union rights, etc.
In Japan, I will gave to accpet that I will never have the same job security - international schools usually offer 2 years contracts at the most.
And if you have a family to support, you will have to take whatever job is available even if conditions are getting worse.

[Jexebel]

Misc, getting paper and presentation credit is the easiest part. Just keep an eye out on calls for papers or presentations and put together something that's borderline useful and you'll not just be published but also remembered more fondly than the asshat after you that's rehashing another useless study. The bar is set pretty low out here. Pick something you're interested in and just give it a shot.

[Splatty]

it's like our brown brothers from the Pakistan region going to England now
and trying to open a corner shop. It's been done. Even the poles
are at it now.

I know people who did eikaiwa here and went back home and couldn't get
a decent job. They see their only option as to capitalize on their experience
by getting a one-year MA in app ling or TEFL and heading back to these Isles,
to get a Uni job that pays 500,000 a month.

By anyone's standards, it's not a bad deal. If you are single,
full range of chicks to bone till your heart gives out,
holidays, benefits, and a fair amoun of job satisfaction.

It's getting crowded. There are no fake priest jobs going (except mine)
the only jobs you can get now are the bottom of the barrel shit that
no-one wants on gaijinpot. The Uni. jobs will go down as the
population decreases.

and then folks, you need good connections to get a good uni job

[ssakamoto]

I really wonder what person with a phD or outstanding qualifications would accept such crap jobs? The pay ain't worth it, and neither are the benefits, I can't imagine who's so qualified to be so desperate to take these crap jobs.

Surely the market will have to recorrect itself again in time?

There are plenty of folks with Ph.Ds driving taxis in New York. The job market worldwide for most professions is going down, not just English teachers. In the US, unemployment is over 10 percent. Many states and municipalities are on the verge of bankruptcy. Salaries and jobs are being cut everywhere, in every industry.

[Splatty]

Yep. And there's a glut of MBAs -
who incidentally - we don't need anymore.

"Everything you touch turns to spreadsheets"

and that basically is the problem !

the new skills in the coming downturn
will be gardening, and mental health professionals
dealing with the fallout of the capitalist gangbang
of the last 30 years. Loads of drug and booze-addled
obsese, brainwashed, greedy people with heads
full of thousands of hours of shit TV

learn to be a mental health professional or a tractor driver

[genkigirl1]

Misc, getting paper and presentation credit is the easiest part. Just keep an eye out on calls for papers or presentations and put together something that's borderline useful and you'll not just be published but also remembered more fondly than the asshat after you that's rehashing another useless study. The bar is set pretty low out here. Pick something you're interested in and just give it a shot.

Pubs ands pres are getting harder - everyone is trying to get them now so the bar has been raised. Lots of people were rejected by JALT national this year for pres and LOTS of people are rejected for papers. Jexe, I'm not trying to be a bitch but this whole notion that this is a cake walk is wrong. Do you have a uni job? No. Do you have an MA in the area? No. Why are you making such comments then? It isn't easy. There are folks out there with the papers, the pres, the MA who aren't getting in. I'm not trying to chase after you but you really do appear to be giving bad advice on this issue. Your comment about the bar being pretty low is also a shocker. I get accused of looking down on folks here but for someone who doesn't even have the min yet, should you be making such comments?

Yes, some places will give you a break - the places with the higest turn over of teachers. Godo place to get your foot in the door but you'll move on after a while. They expect that.

As for PhDs... I figure it is folks like me who are married to a Japanese person who want job security and therefore, suck it up and do it. Which is why there are so many folks with MAs here. I'm currently looking into PhD programs because I would like the security.

ETA - Jexe, you might want to ask some of the people you know doing uni work if it is easy to get into. Ask the "new" folks - ie those who have been here less than 10- years. Or do you not know folks working uni gigs and this is why you assume it is easy?

[ShinNS]

gg1, which is harder do you think, the foot in the door or moving up the ladder from the foot-in-the-door type position?

[genkigirl1]

gg1, which is harder do you think, the foot in the door or moving up the ladder from the foot-in-the-door type position?

No idea to be honest as I've just got my foot in the door. From the sounds of things (and from the offers I've "had" in terms of tenure) tenure positions are much harder to come by (obviously) and you need to have much more (again, obviously). I was "offered" one (in passing by my boss as sort of a joke) if I had my PhD. The guy was serious as one of my schools wants someone with everything they want from a PT teacher (this was the school with the panel interview, the publications and japanese resume) but with that extra paper. They don't know of anyone that they like who has the Japanese skills and is already in the area so... This guy thinks it is insane as most of the tenure profs at the place don't have PhDs but they're all in the 50's so... they don'T have to worry about it. I think now for most tenure tracks you need a PhD. I haven't done one so no idea the work level but I assume it is much, much more difficult - the presentations and whatnot that I've looked at with regards to work are scaring the crap out of me!

That being said, you already have your foot in the door, publishing, have the connections... Starting out if you don't have what I wrote about above, I think you could have a hard time. I know a few guys in the Kansai area who have it all and STILL can't catch a break because they aren't one of the old timers who are just moving around as classes get cut. They are all private high school teachers not doing ALT gigs but have their own classes. Many are happy with what they have but would like the better pay and holidays the unis offer but without the uni experience and not being in the odl boy's club they are having a hard time.

What do you think? I recall you are uni FT aren't you? What is your take on the situation now?